April's CR Diary

Have a fabulous visit up there, April, and don't let this troll get under your skin. Say hi to MR for me.

-Liz

No, I never said I dismiss CR out of hand. Well, actually, I do dismiss CR, but I do appreciate and respect CRON. The ON is critical to making CR work, and this is where I see the biggest breakdown with those on the program.

And the RDA is still a total joke, much like most nutritional observations made by the US government (i.e. the new food pyramid) and pharmaceutical industry.

> No, I never said I dismiss CR out of hand.
> Well, actually, I do dismiss CR

Scott, please enlighten us as to why you dismiss CR (or, to be specific, CRON). Assuming someone gets optimal nutrition, as much as possible from diet, and supplementing where necessary, why do you think that this would not be any healthier than getting optimal nutrition without CR?

Aubrey de Grey, whom you malign (and as de Grey would say, you don't malign a person "rightly" or "wrongly", you just malign them), at least has stated a scientifically valid hypothesis about why CR won't work in humans.

First of all, let's back up. Do you at least accept the fact that CR works in rodents? I admit that this is somewhat of a loaded questions, since I said "fact". Do you at least accept the observation, made in countless medical and nutritional studies, that CR increases lifespan in mice, roughly linearly with the degree of restriction, up to an extreme of almost 50% restriction? If you don't accept this, then we can't really discuss this rationally, because you are being blinded by your zeal to push your agenda. The studies are there, literally scores of them, if not hundreds.

Now, I'll move on, on the assumption that you at least accept that CR works in rodents. From there, the CR community had in the past extropolated a similar 30%-40% gain as being possible in humans. This extrapolation seemed logical in its day, based on thermodynamics and crude biomarkers such as insulin, fasting glucose, cholesterol, etc. With our current knowledge of how much of CR's benefits are genetically dictated, rather than thermodynamically, the figure of 30-40% increase in maximum lifespan currently stands on shaky ground without supporting studies. What few supporting studies we have, have so many confounding variables that we cannot extrapolate the true benefits with CR, not to the degree of accuracy we'd like.

So for the moment, CR is a plausible, highly likely, but unproven way to greatly extend lifespan in humans. Maximum lifespan, anyway. Maybe not 30% (35 years), but a decade or more doesn't seem out of the question. There's a growing mountain of evidence that it will extend mean lifespan significantly (30%-40% isn't implausible), based on the reduction in disease rates and risk factors. But the same could almost be said for proper exercise and nutrition and supplementation, so for now, we're at somewhat of an impasse.

However, Aubrey de Grey at least made an attempt to say why he thinks that CR won't extend the maximum lifespan by more than a few years (based on the genetic aspects of CR). You've provided nothing, other than your zeal. Please, enlighten us. Why won't CR work, when on its scientific merits it would be more plausible that it would add several years than not?

Jay, everything you wrote is blown out the window because you start off saying I dismiss CRON, when in the post above yours I clearly state the opposite.

CR and CRON both work. However, only CRON makes sense, in that anyone who only does CR (sans ON) is a fool and at great risk of sabotaging their CR efforts.

I just looked at Elizabeth's blog and say her daily meals, and I have to say I've very impressed. She's too high on protein, and the shrimp and tuna are not great sources of EPA/DHA (especially the shrimp), but overall she's doing it perfectly -- including all of the green tea she's drinking. I'd love to see her supplement list, because with the right supplements she could easily add another 10+ years to her efforts.

What I've said, which likewise you've ignored I suppose, is that the synergistic combination of strength training, nutrition (the ON part of CRON), and proper supplements (I take 100+ daily, mostly food extracts), will get any dedicated person past 100 years. I fully expect to live past that, given no further breakthroughs (and of course there will be further breakthroughs, which will extend that age).

I do not know whether CRON beats my plan, but I do have supreme confidence that my plan works, as there are living examples of it working, such as Jack Lalanne (he started supplementing back in the 30's, and started a strict optimum nutrition life style), and Bob Delmonteque. There are others, too, but I don't have their names handy.

And as I've said, I'm taking resveratrol supplements, which have been proven in animals to mimic the calorie restriction effect, through genetic triggers that the resveratrol molecule produces. If resveratrol could be patented and trademarked by pharmaceutical companies, it's be the most successful pill ever created, and touted as the one true anti-aging pill. In fact, major pharmaceutical companies are working hard to create a resveratrol derivative that they can market in this way, but most likely that will be impossible because any slight change to the molecule will change its behavior.