April's CR Diary

Nice story..you guys look great as always. A little preview of what's to come in March. I'm about 65% there which is up from 0% AND I heard "Oh, Oh, Oh it's Magic" today while driving into work. A sign? I think so.

Yes, the glasses look very nice.

D

April, I much prefer the piece in your local news to the video on Matt's blog. The local article has you and Michael as coming off a little unusual -- but well intentioned.

The CNN video is a different story. Seeing the scales, the computer and the calculator in the kitchen is more than a little strange looking. Saying that Michael eats exactly 1913 calories daily (with a lunch of exactly 594 calories) and that he takes 30 nutritional supplements each day, is 6 feet tall and weighs 115 pounds, sounds to the vast majority of folks just plain -- well, bizarre.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm aware of the obesity problems and believe in the general CR philosophy of good nutrition with fewer calories. My concern is that I question the benefits of taking it to such extremes.

Your post the other day about finding something to eat at the Wawa and not eating their Egg McMuffin knockoff is a good example. In trying to find something to eat, you and Micheal made phone calls to each other while he was on-line searching the nutritional value of the breakfast sandwich. You elected not to eat the sandwich because it had a piece of cheddar cheese that would have been a little over what you normally eat for calories for breakfast.

You could have had other choices like yogurt, cottage cheese or apples, but you didn't want to eat "135 calories more than my normal breakfast" although you acknowledged that "a piece of cheese is not going to kill me." Still, you lamented "what I'm finding as I take my calories lower and lower is that consistency is really important. I didn't want to go that far over my normal calories, and I certainly didn't want to blow a lot of calories on high saturated fat cheese."

April, it's a freaking piece of cheese!

Even Dr. Roy Walford, the guru of this whole movement, didn't favor this type of fanatic behavior. In his book "The Anti-Aging Plan" on page 79 he talks about eating out at restaurants and away from home. He writes:

"You can eat quite delicious meals away from home without giving up the Anti-Aging Plan. Here is how: First, if you are eating the diet with caloric limitation added for lifespan extension, don't think about the total number of calories you are eating when you dine out. Don't carry a calorie book or a foodscale along with you. There is simply no need for this kind of constant exact monitoring of intake."

He goes on to describe that you should just estimate your calories and make good choices about your food selections. He specifically notes that when eating out "precise counting of calories" would "spoil the event."

Here, here.

I believe you and Michael have every right to live and eat however you want to and I applaud your fine efforts at gaining publicity for CR and the health problems of being obese. I just feel that your unnatural fixation on food and nutrition is more than a little out there.

As for me, I'll be happy living a normal lifespan in good health by practicing "easy" CR. For me, life is too short to spend all that time obsessing over every single thing that I eat or drink. My wife, children, work and religion fill my days with events much more important than exact food measurements.

Call me "CR-lite" if you like, but you won't find me wasting a moment on wondering whether a single slice of cheese is going to adversely affect my life. There are simply too many other things in my day that are far, far more important.

Al

Al,

I appreciate your comments, and you're obviously well-intentioned. But I've thought for awhile that you lack a basic understanding of what we're trying to do here.

We're not just doing mild easy dieting for obesity avoidance. That's all well and good, and it lowers risk of early death from disease, but it does not slow biological aging or increase lifespan. To have the hope of doing that, based on loads of animal evidence, you have to reduce calories further than what is normal, or even "natural." It's not just maintaining a healthy weight, it's actually giving your body less food than it thinks it needs, while maintaining adequate nutrition.

That's HARD. It requires unusual self-disclipline, attention to nutritional detail, and managing your lifestyle so that you're either eating in a pattern where you're not unusually hungry (for most people, that means consistency meal to meal and day to day) or just dealing with a bit of hunger. Because both MR and I prefer not to feel particularly hungry, we find it easier to control our calories meal to meal so that we're not yo-yo-ing all over the place. Others have a different style -- Brian Delaney, author of Longevity Diet, skips lunch everyday and spends much of the afternoon feeling hungry. Fine for him, not my style. I want to enjoy my life every day, and I would find frequent hunger a detriment to that. So I order my life such that I can keep my calories unusually low while not feeling hungry.

The 135 calorie figure that you pointed out in your last comment is 10% of my daily calorie intake! That's pretty significant for me. As you point out, I am short and your twelve year old daughter would tower over me.

I've tried the easy breezy eat whatever be flexible don't give a damn about a piece of cheese version of obesity avoidance aka moderate CR for several years, and I've learned that it isn't going to get me to the goals I have for my life and health. That's based on extensive research and experimentation for the last three years. I'm not trying to convert people to hardcore CR, to appear normal, to win a popularity contest, or to look like a supermodel (way too short for that!!!) Those are not my goals. I enjoy my life *more* when I'm at a consistent low calorie level, eating food that makes me healthy. I've tried both, and I've cycled between the two. Without exception, I feel better when I'm lower calorie, more consistent, and higher in nutrition.

I don't spend every minute obsessing about my food, and I find that the more I plan in advance, the less time it takes to deal with food at all. This blog is about CR, so of course you hear more about the CR stories, especially the ones I think are amusing. You don't hear as much about the fun things I do with my friends (amazing how I can have a great time without eating crap!), the two exciting campaigns I'm running to help nurses get a voice in their job, my religion (I feel like it's none of anyone's business) or the interesting, non-food related books I'm reading, or my trips to the art museum.

Overall, I'm a lot more normal than you think. But I've learned, again through vast research and self-experimentation, as well as from the experiences of others, that a life that is not ruled by the biological compulsion to eat more than my body needs -- and by that I mean more than my body really needs, not just what my body would need to maintain what is considered a normal weight -- is much more in accordance with my own goals. My goal is to slow my biological aging process, and to enjoy every day of my life to the fullest while doing so. From my perspective, having tried both, this is what works for me.

If you are happy with an average lifespan, than your actions definitely are in line with your goals, and I congratulate you on that. Very few people can say the same, about much of anything. My goals are different from yours, and from those of most people. I am not happy with an average rate of aging, or an average level of health. To me, sacrificing any part of my youthfulness or health or lifespan would just not be worth it to eat more, or eat lower quality food. I've thought it out, I've tried different levels of CR, and I've come to a well-reasoned decision. I've come face to face with the biological compulsion to EAT unnecessary calories and I've stared it down. I don't always, but I usually can, and I've come to see the compulsion for what it is. We, as humans, have the power to make choices about our lives and not just be ruled by instinct. We can also choose to what areas of our lives we will apply that power of choice. Marathon runners apply it to running way farther than a normal person would. I apply it to consuming fewer calories because that's the only intervention known to slow the aging process in mammals.

I've also come face to face with a lot of my old rationalizations for behavior that I knew was not in accordance with my goals. Ah, how I used to rationalize: "It's a special occasion," "I don't want people to think I'm weird," "I should be moderate so that people like me," "I'll eat less tomorrow and it will all average out (never mind that I'll feel hungry while eating less and I won't like that much at all)"

At this point, I'm frankly rather bored with rationalizations. My goals are clear, so any behavior that's not in accordance with my goals is just plain silly. Sure, there are times when it makes sense to compromise, but most of what I used to consider reasonable compromises were really just rationalizations for a lack of self-discipline. The more self-discipline I get (through practice, meditation, prayer, and conscious attention) the less those rationalizations hold any appeal for me. These days, it's a sacrifice to do something *other* than keep my calories low and my nutrition high. Sometimes it's a sacrifice worth making, but not for a crappy Egg McMuffin knock off at a convenience store where they'll happily sell me eggwhites and provide an entertaining story in the meantime.

As to seeming a bit "out there," as you put it: while it's all very nice for people to like me, it's not worth sacrificing my long term health or my short term happiness. And that's the tradeoff for me. I've tried both, and I know what works for me. It's much more fun to feel great at an optimal level of health than it is to feel like I fit in comfortably with the pack of people who are making choices that usually aren't even in accordance with their own health goals, much less my own more ambitious longevity goals.

The biological compulsion to eat eat eat is powerful, and for good reasons. But to actually slow our aging process, we have to eat a level of calories that is less than our body thinks it needs. You can do that several different ways. I prefer to do it in a way that actually makes me feel *better* on a day to day basis, and that requires superduper nutrition plus calorie consistency. At my size (tiny!) I don't have much of a margin. If I were six feet tall and or male, I would have more of a margin. I could decide to be less consistent, but I know from experience that sets me up for unwanted hunger, and I'd prefer to feel satisfied all the time, even if it means freaking you out by deciding not to eat an Egg McMuffin.

You see, my goal here is not to impress you. It's to slow my biological aging process in a way that makes me feel great every single day. If my actual goal is at odds with impressing you, or making you feel comfortable, that's something I'm willing to live with. I do hope, however, that you continue to enjoy the blog, the new friends you've made in the CR blogger community, and whatever lifestyle makes you happy.

a

i actually just clicked on the comment box to say you guys are ridiculously cute (especially with your matching red hair!), but after scrolling down and reading the text that followed, i also want to say: yes, yes, yes! april, i want to print out your comment response and carry it around with me in case anyone ever gives me any crap!

I love your reply, April! I agree with you that, as I read his comments, Al doesn't seem to be quite getting what your goals are, and the kind of calorie restriction that is necessary to achieve these goals. Moderate CR is fine, and will most probably lead one to slim or normal weight, health, and at least an average lifespan. But, it won't lead to true longevity -- like the animals in labs on CRON diets have -- which is, after all, your goal!

Sure, it's pleasant, and even desirable, for people to not think that one is bizarre, extreme, unnatural, obsessive, or out there. It would be nice to be able to practice true CRON for longevity (and not just health and maybe a-bit-above-average lifespan), and to *also* not have people think those things about one. But, if it is (perhaps unfortunately) necessary to make a choice between CRON for longevity, and having people think you're moderate and reasonable, then obviously you (or anyone) is certainly entitled to make that choice, and just as obviously, you have made your choice in favor of CRON! As you frequently and reasonably point out, others may freely choose otherwise. You are just one person, and you can eat (or not eat) whatever the heck you want for breakfast. Not only is your diet your choice -- it's also based on scientific evidence that it (and not moderate CR) will be most likely to achieve your goals.

Best, Rachel

I came back to see your response and I'm so glad I did! I'll need to print this too.

D

April,

Unrelated to this post, but I wanted to relay to you (and the others going) that I just can't make it to your March CR-Weekend Extravaganza (that is the name of the weekend, right? :-).

I'm bummed that I won't be there, but you're just far enough away that it would be a bit pricey for me to make the weekend. I had enough time to think about it that my practical nature won out over my act on spur-of-the-moment impulses (we engineers are just TOO practical!)

I DO want to go to the next CRS Conference, though, so maybe I'll meet everyone there!

Amy

April, you commented that I might lack "a basic understanding" of what you're doing as it relates to CR. Now I may not be the brightest bulb on the porch, but I had enough gray cells to make it through college and law school and think that I can grasp the concept of strict CR as a relates to life extension. I've read "The Anti-Aging Plan" by Roy and Lisa Walford, as well as "Beyond The 120-year Diet." In addition, I was reading the posts on Yahoo's CRsupportgroup years ago – before you even began CR.

So it's not that I don't understand what you're doing, I do. I just happen to think that you and Michael take CR to an extreme not even contemplated by Dr. Walford. He said that people shouldn't be fixated on calories. He wrote in "Anti-Aging" that "eating away from home often coincides with occasions when food is a special event – holiday meals, or meals in fine restaurants – and precise counting of calories (not to mention the amused stares of your fellow diners) would spoil the event."

If Roy Walford, the physician who lived in Biosphere 2 for two years and founded the whole CR movement, is of the opinion that you don't need this fixation on calorie counting when you're dining out, why do you elect to ignore his advice in this area? Do you think that the eight people in the Biosphere were fastidiously measuring and weighing all their food each time they ate or drank anything in between their vigorous physical labor in the Biosphere? These people found that they couldn't grow as much food as they anticipated and so they had to eat a calorie restricted diet to continue the experiment of living in the Biosphere. They existed on 1800 calories and gradually increased their intake to 2200 calories. I'm sure they didn't spend nearly the amount of time that you and Michael consume each day with your daily food measurements and calculations.

Do you really think that the addition one day of a piece of cheese with 135 calories is going to make even the tiniest bit of difference in how long you might live? Mary writes today in her blog about her father in law who overdoes things. It's a good point. My belief is that you and Michael are way too fanatical about calories and nutrition. I agree with Mary – you can get too much of a good thing.

Speaking of Dr. Walford, he only lived to be 79. I understand that he died from Lou Gehrig's disease. Doesn't this make you wonder for a moment about all the other diseases and illnesses that can affect people that have little or nothing to do with nutrition? People are not rats or monkeys living in climate-controlled cages. We live in a polluted world filled with an amazing number of cancers, diseases and other dangers. Most people in the United States don't just die of "old age" anymore – they're taken by cancer, die of complications from pneumonia, have strokes, or contract other fatal illnesses – like Lou Gehrig's disease. Many of these things have little or nothing to do with proper nutrition.

I've written to you privately and think that you know I respect your decision to live whatever lifestyle you choose. It's wonderful that you're so vigilant about your CR lifestyle and I know that you have helped lots of folks through your blog and the publicity you've generated for CR. I respect you for these things.

I simply believe that you've taken this concept to such an extreme that even if Dr. Walford, were here today and could see the obsession you have with each calorie that you consume, would probably shake his head in amazement. And if he were here to dine with you in a restaurant, your slavish calorie counting would – for him – "spoil the event."

It seems to me that instead of you controlling your calories and nutrition, they control you.

Al

It seems to me that by April and MR controlling their calories and nutrition, they control you, Al.

Al,

Again, thank you for your comments. Have not yet received your email, but gmail is often slow!

As you may or may not recall, I still eat out at excellent restaurants and enjoy those events. I find that making a conscious decision to do that every once in awhile (about once a month) is fun, even though I do make up for the calories by eating much less the day before and after. To me, that's worth it. Maybe someday it won't be, but for now it is. Eating a slice of cheap cheese that I don't want really isn't worth it. It's all about choice, our own risk assessment, and doing what makes us feel most comfortable as we pursue our differing goals.

I would be willing to bet that I spend less time on my food per day than most women who cook for their families. Maybe about half an hour to cook dinner, about five minutes for breakfast. MR makes my lunch salad so I just throw some salsa and yogurt on it at work. I tend to work more than 60 hours a week, and my spare time is spent with MR, my friends, my family, and hanging out in the blogosphere with my friends.

From my perspective, your obsession with being normal, eating things that I don't consider a healthy part of a regular diet (though fine occasionally), and *not* weighing and measuring is a bit odd. Why is it so important to you to be perceived as normal? Why does it bother you that others are not so concerned about that? I do not know you, nor do I claim to have insight into your motivations. But it does make me wonder. You claim to have different goals from us, yet you seem troubled by how we pursue our goals. You believe that you would not be happy with our lifestyle, yet we (quite visibly) are, and we're not attempting to change you.

As for Dr. Walford, he had many interesting practices, some of which I wish to emulate, others I do not. I do not believe in the kind of guru-ism that says that we need to do everything just like the founding figure did. I think that's dangerous. I did my own research, and continue to do so. I come to decisions that work for me. I can only suggest that others do their research and make decisions that work for them. We could all stand to take some responsibility for our own choices, don't you think?

To me, there are more important things in life than eating a piece of cheese. I look around me and see people controlled by their compulsions, and willing to make all kinds of excuses to avoid confronting them. I feel like I'm very lucky to have come across the information I did to make choices that work for my life, and to have the education (thanks to the huge sacrifices of my parents and a lot of school loans) to do the research and understand the info. I feel better now than I ever have. What works for me might not work for you, but I sure am having a good time!

If I'm happy with my choices, and I'm loving my life, more than I ever have, why would you want me to change?

a

I count every single gram of good with food scales. It takes a whopping 5 minutes out of 24 hours to add up all the foods on the computer. Then it takes around 20 minutes to prepare and have the meal ready. Then say another 20 minutes to make my second meal of the day. That is in total 45 minutes out of 24 hours dedicated to measuring, data input and preparing or cooking meals. The rest of the day I'm in work and in college... I would assume that many other CRers are also similar.

Some people just can't see past the blog, or the lifestyle you put forward. They judge based on that... it seems like ones life may revolve around CR. But then so what if people did spend even more time on resarching CR and whatever else... If it's what the person enjoy doing then great!

It's unfortunate that Al and so many others feel the need to be judgmental. Honestly, what business is it of their's how you choose to live your life? Your responses were impeccable! Good for you for being true to your personal goals and not letting the opinions of others dictate your actions.

I'm not really sure what Al's point is. He says he respects your decision to practice CR the way you do and then in the next paragraph he says you're doing it wrong! Bizarre!?

I'm not in the hardcore CR camp and I still find your extreme CR entries very entertaining. I could never practice CR in the precise manner that you do but I don't expect you to do it differently just so I feel better about your practices. Although I must admit that when you wrote about plunging face first into a pile of kale and salsa at the salsa bar I was kind of grossed out - not that there's anything wrong with that - it's just not my cup of tea (or salsa). Still, you should be able to do or write about whatever floats your CR boat!

One of the best points you made was that since this blog is 100% about CR it's easy to assume that your life is 100% consumed by CR. Your readers need to remember that there is a lot more to you than calorie counting!

Keep marching to the beat of your own CR drummer April. And remember that for every Al like comment there are at least 10 supportive comments that never get written.

Tim

I really don't have any problem with how you and MR do CR, be it slightly obsessively. You obviously enjoy it enormously and have a great time doing it together. But, I agree with Al that the CNN piece would come across as eccentric and unattractive to most people - and portrays CR in that manner, as well. It's just not real to imply that it's valuable to get exactly 1903 calories a day - vs. say 1900 plus or minus 50. I think the CNN interview implies that. I well understand that the challenge of getting exactly the right amount of calories can make CR more entertaining. But, it's not evidence-based medicine. So, I vote with Al on which piece I prefer. The CNN piece has always bothered me, while your local news piece still got the idea of CR across well and portrayed it more appealingly.

It's just a fact that the media is looking for an interesting story and will emphasize the more unusual aspects of CR and sensationalize it. When my non-CR friends see these stories they talk to me about a yuck factor - knowing that I do CR - but not realizing I know all these CR stars - Dean and Paul+Averill included and count them as friends. It's more a comment on the media and our fat, gak-eating public than it is on you and MR, though.

The food looked great, by the way! Love your new place.

April, nowhere did I ever ask you to change. I specifically said that I respect your decision to live whatever lifestyle you choose. I mean that wholeheartedly. Each of us makes a choice to do what we believe is right.

I guess in a round-a-bout way, I'm just commenting that I believe that CR -- even extreme CR -- can be done with the same or very similar benefits without the compulsive obsession with counting calories.

Again, I'm with you as it relates to the benefits of eating healthy, watching nutrition and maintaining a fit lifestyle. I just happen to believe that folks can achieve these benefits without going to the extremes you describe. If I fastidiously counted calories the way you do, it would diminish my enjoyment of food and lessen my pleasure in life.

I'm glad it works for you and don't ask that you change a thing. I guess we can simply respectfully disagree on what is necessary to live a healthy lifestyle and extend our time on this earth. Perhaps when you're my age (in another 20 years or so), your opinions might change. Maybe mine will too. Let's hope that we both live to a ripe old age and can talk amiably about the different approaches we are both taking to the same end.

Al

Hi April,
I was hoping you could give me some guidance as to a goal weight. I've been keeping my caloric intake steady at approximately 1,300 cal/day (approximately meaning I'm 50 cal+/- on any given day). I'm a 25 year old female and at 5'3" I'm now 100lbs. I feel like this is low on a purely numerical basis, although I'm not feeling any negative side effects (ie amenorrhea). I guess my question is how can I tell when I've lost too much weight. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
Rachel

Al: You keep saying you respect what April is doing but I must point out that in your earlier posts, you kept using negative terms - "slavish", "fanatic", "obsessive" - that don't seem all that respectful of the way she's living her life. No one likes to be described in those terms.

Hi, April.

You seem dedicated to continuing your own research on CRON. Toward that end, here is a pointer to recent research out of Baylor College of Medicine, to be published in AAAS Science. The link is http://www.physorg.com/news89563589.html .

I doubt anyone can know much more than that the food you do eat on a CRON diet is usually healthful.

In response to Mr. Nye's comment, you wrote:

"You claim to have different goals from us, yet you seem troubled by how we pursue our goals. You believe that you would not be happy with our lifestyle, yet we (quite visibly) are, and we're not attempting to change you."

April, you are trying to portray CRON in the form of how and your partner pursue your diet. If I were a CRON practitioner, I might care how you portray CRON. Pretty soon, I would want to control how you portray CRON.

"Some CR practitioners find that they struggle initially to "wean" themselves from diets of junk foods, empty calories, and addictive substances."[1]

Liquids like wine probably qualify as addictive substances.

"Calorie Restriction is just that: limiting caloric intake based on research showing that by limiting an animal's calories it may be possible to increase its lifespan. Research has already shown that this is true for some animals. CR practitioners are hoping to show that it is true for humans as well."[1]

Keyword, 'hoping'. The CRON society site describes CRON practice as a study, and recommends keeping track of biomarkers to check your health.[2]

How many of the people that you encourage through your blog regularly test Tier 2, or even Tier 1? I wonder if, in addition to regularly performing both tiers of tests, you also know and use the blood and urine tests (the urine tests check metabolites) available that test body vitamin, mineral, amino acid, and digestive bacteria levels. The tests are popular with people outside the CRON community. Not that those tests would help you or any of your blogosphere friends test for some of the negative health effects of losing too much weight. However, the tests can inform a person who relies on irrelevant food nutrient estimates to prepare a diet of foods that the person prepares, measures, and even grows themselves.

Mr. Nye, you wrote that the biosphere 2 people ate 1800 up to 2200. A low number that increased, but with how much physical activity per day, I wonder? I will have to read more about biosphere 2 and Dr. Walford. I know it was unintentional, but thank you for informing me.

April, here are a couple more quotes for you. The first is just more from the CRON society website:

"How low in weight can (or should) I go?

According to Walford, achieving 10 - 25% below your current set point weight is considered reasonable. The definition for "set point" is somewhat vague: "...that weight toward which one naturally drifts." [Walford, B120YD. See the References and Resources section of this Booklet]. A safe CR weight to strive for is generally considered to be your lean set-point weight: your weight during late teens to mid-20s, providing you were not overweight (e.g. obese) or underweight (e.g. anorexic) in your teenage years."[3]

The second is a quote from the result of a BMI calculation done on healthAtoZ.com:

"A BMI of 17.7 suggests that your weight may be too low. Although you are not at higher risk for obesity-related diseases at this weight, you should be aware that there are also significant health risks associated with being underweight. If you have been losing weight or thinking of losing weight, or if you are unable to gain weight, please consult a qualified physician and draw his or her attention to this issue. If you have any questions or concerns about this result, please be sure to contact your physician."[4]

BTW, for anyone else interested, the study done at Baylor concludes that animals (fruit flies) on a CR diet lose longevity (6-18%) if they smell food that they do not eat.[5]

Take care,

-Noah

***
[1]-http://www.calorierestriction.org/CR_vs_Anorexia
[2]-http://www.calorierestriction.org/Biomarkers
[3]-http://www.calorierestriction.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions#howLow
[4]-https://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/tl/cl/bmi/bmi.jsp
[5]-"Researchers find link between food odors and lifespan in fruit flies", http://www.physorg.com/news89563589.html

It's weird how cocktail napkin free association scribbles become even less intelligible with citations.

what a great cnn video piece.

I can't wait to meet you two!

Sheila

"it's a freaking piece of cheese! "

Say that every day and it will be your mantra to the grave.

Lets remember, MR and April have been living this for 6 years. Of couse they have it perfected or in some opinions, taken it to an extreme. Admit it, you guys are interested or you wouldn't be here.

With 2/3 of american adults overweight, I think its high time we all ate less.

Having said that, nobody is suggesting that you start off at April's and MR levels.

I am in my first year of practicing CRON but I can say that I am calmer....no nervous energy that plauged me before. Yet still I have plenty of energy to work and excersise.

I am at 1600 cal/day.

Thank you April for being so honest.

Rachel --

I answered your question in off-blog email.

a