April's CR Diary

The ridiculous-ness and mandatory-ness of (uh, I'm too asleep to write a decent sentence) "fat-talk" is brilliantly parodied in "Mean Girls". The three "mean girls" are saying ridiculous things about their bodies (my eyebrows suck), and then everyone turns to Lindsey Lohan who is all, "um, sometimes I have bad breath in the morning?"

It's a fabulous scene.

It is, however, really sad that "fat talk" is the norm.

Actually, my naturally really really skinny friend hates it too, for a different reason - she'll be sitting around with some other, overweight and/or normal sized girls, who will be complaining about how fat they are. If she chimes in with something like "I wish my breasts were bigger" someone will invariably turn to her and snap "shut up, you're skinny!" She complains (justly) that she's allowed to have body insecurities even though she's thin.

People think she shouldn't, though, because they're holding on to the myth that being skinny solves all your problems and all your body insecurities. I think there's a deeper issue, too - the fact that she almost wants to have body issues, to fit in. Because overall, she's pretty happy with her body, and doesn't really mind the few things she might change (size of breasts, moving a pound of fat from her stomach to her butt, etc.) But to be female, and in that kind of situation, and say, actually, I love my body is SO socially unacceptable. And it's sad.

I saw that article too! (I mean, before I found it on your blog.) What really bothers me about "fat talk" is the way it often involves a certain amount of helplessness, i.e. "I wish I were skinny." or "I wish I could just eat brewer's yeast soup for dinner instead of these slices of pizza." Well, guess what? Girls, you CAN! And once you start meeting your nutritional requirements, you'll wonder why you ever deprived yourself of brewer's yeast and self-love in the first place.

The other thing that bothers me is how it's perceived as arrogant and rude to say you love your body when others around you are complaining about theirs. Two weeks ago, an overweight friend looked at me and said in that wistful voice, "you're so skinny..." and I wanted to say, "I know. Isn't it great?" But I just shrugged and mumbled a guilty "well..." then I changed the subject.

I remember that scene from Mean Girls too, Emily! What a fantastic movie.

Interesting article and true true true. I have a slew of female cousins (2 of whom have been hospitalized because of anorexia and the rest pay no attention to nutrition whatsoever) who do this incessently. I absolutely refuse to participate, especially since I'm bigger than any of them (being about 8 inches taller means that I'm just bigger and differently shaped than any of them).

They spent the morning of my wedding while we were all getting ready together fat talking. I was stunned that seven seemingly intellegent women who rarely see each other couldn't find a better topic of conversation on what was suppossed to be a fun, meaningful day. It's sad.

Dinner last night: cooked and chopped egg whites smothered in what tasted like a decadent cream sauce but was really a little salt free veggie broth, some Fat Free Ricotta, and tons of chopped up tomatoes (heated in a saucepan for about 10 minutes). I garnished with a little fresh basil and tiny sprinkling of low sodium parmesan cheese (we are only starting moderate CRON, so are using up the high fat cheese while we have it).

So, April, have you ever found fat free ricotta in an organic version?

Ugh!
I've been in this situation plenty of times, only I used to be the one doing the "fat talking." Now I just sit there awkwardly trying to think of something to say. It's very strange being the skinny girl. Everyone gives you this accusing look that seems to say, "How dare you be skinny when the rest of us are so big?!"
Even when people act positive about my weight loss, I sense an undercurrent of hostility. My dear friend, A., comments on how skinny I am and then proceeds to beat herself up about her own weight *every single time* she sees me. This usually ends up with a seemingly earnest plea for my advice on how she might lose weight. Yet whenever I try to tell her what I did to lose the weight, it's blatantly obvious she isn't at all interested and was just asking to be polite, I guess. She insists on going through this conversation over and over again, even though my advice never changes and she never seems to act on my advice. I wish she didn't feel like she had to do that. And I wish a group of girls or women could get together and talk about math or science instead of their dress sizes!

Okay, I know there are larger issues here, and of course I think it's desirable to be healthy and not hate one's body, etc., and I guess I'm just being my usual curmudgeonly, contrary self, but...isn't this "fat talk" partly just a subset of the traditional "bitching bonding" that people (women?) have always done? Of course, it's comforting and even kind of fun to complain about things with like-minded people -- I do it all the time, though not about fatness. I mean, c'mon, I live in New York -- complaining with one's friends is a way of life!

And, really, aren't most commenters kinda doing the same thing? You are bonding over bitching about the fat talk: agreeing that fat talk is destructive and disturbing is making you feel more bonded and close -- you are using your like-mindedness to create a community. And I feel a little bit out of it because I can't join in -- because the article didn't particularly resonate with me (I don't feel all that, that disturbed about the fat talk, nor do I feel socially pressured to engage in it), because I can't write in and say, "omg, yes, this is so disturbing!," I feel a little bit excluded from the community.

Which is fine -- I do not mean to be mocking, really! Or, no more mocking than I am of myself, truly. I just kinda think it's all interesting in a sociological, Deborah Tannen-y, "what do women talk about and how do they bond" way, and I am struck, as I said, by the fact that the commenters seem (to me) to be doing something similar to the fat-talking women -- creating bonds among them by complaining about something...??

Rachel

That's a really interesting point, Rachel, and I think it's true that we're bonding over this. However, I think "fat talk" and other types of complaining (such as traffic/weather/jobs/whatever) have one very important difference - self loathing.

Fat talk is saying, on some level, "I hate myself," while complaining about weather, or jobs, or even other people's fat talk, is saying "I hate this situation." Personally, I think it's fine to bond over hating a situation, but not good for anyone if women are bonding over feeling bad about themselves.

I would be perfectly comfortable in a group of women complaining about how OTHERS insulted their bodies or weights, or how it's difficult to get the motivation to go to the gym, or how they hate it when someone gives them their favorite junk food. But I really hate the "ohmygod, I'm so fat/ I shouldn't eat this, it'll make me fat/i ate too much today, i'm so fat" et al.