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May 5, 2007
More Responses to Frequently Asked Questions
I recently got this comment to an old entry from someone who apparently hadn't read anything else:
Hi, I just surfed into this blog of yours, and am concerned about this advice.
Actually, much research indicates that it may not be healthy to start CR before one has stopped developing. For example, they grow mice until they are adults then start CR. If they start CR before that, they have are misdeveloped or have shorter lifespans than ad libitum creatures.
So, actually, CRON-ing too young is not such a good thing. Although of course eating healthy is always a good idea.
Also cutting calories gradually is the best way to start CR. Some research has shown that sudden CR has actually shortened lifespan in mice.
I don't recommend my little brothers start CR-ing until they are past their developmental years, at least after 21 if not 25.
I'm sorry if this reply vexes you at all, I don't mean to cause trouble, but I'm worried about the health of these adolescent CR-ers.
www.calorierestriction.org has some nice advice, maybe you've already know of this site.
Of course if the adolescent individual is overweight ad libitum, then CR-ing to a healthier weight will not cause harm.
Sincerely, Felicia
My response, sent in private email:
Hi Felicia,
I agree with all of your comments,and have written repeatedly that no one should start CR until they are 21 or over. Perhaps you missed those entries, or perhaps I should put that disclaimer at the top of every entry.
I have also written many times that cutting calories gradually so that you do not lose weight too fast (no more than 1 pound per month if starting lean, no more than 2 pounds per week if starting overweight) is the only way to do it safely.
And I am a member of the CR Society and actually collaborated in writing the "get started" guide.
I do not mean to sound curt, but I deal with these issues so many times that it is frustrating to have someone make rather obvious comments as though I would advocate anything to the contrary. The issue you were reading dealt, if I recall correctly, with what to do *after* you're done with the weight loss phase, and how to determine your final calorie level, not with how to start CR, a subject which has been discussed ad nauseum on blog because very few people ever get past the point of "starting" CR.
I do however welcome your comments and encourage you to keep reading.
thank you,
april
Let me clarify about a few things that are NOT proper CR:
1. Starting too young. Can everyone please wait until your brain has developed at 21 to start reducing calories beyond what is necessary to maintain a "normal" weight? Now of course if you are overweight, reducing calories to reach normal weight makes sense.
2. Binging and fasting. I am so sick of hearing about people doing this and calling it CR. I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but people who are binging and then fasting clearly don't understand the object of this exercise. The point is not to lose weight fast, it is to gradually (yes Felicia, gradually) reduce calories so as to reach a calorie level below that which the body would naturally gravitate towards. Some people will come out very skinny, others will come out more normal looking... we are genetically different creatures. But losing weight fast or binging and then fasting to "make up for it" is NOT CR. So please stop. If you have some sort of binging disorder, get help, but do not call yourself a CR person because it confuses those who are genuinely interested in CR from health-extension and makes people think that we've all got eating disorders.
Or course some idiots are going to think that anyway, and there's nothing to be done about them.
3. Eating small amounts of junk food. This is not CRON. This is stupid and silly and counterproductive to your health. Occasional junk food is no big deal, but focusing on low calories without the nutrition is unlikely to add to your lifespan. AGAIN: Eating some junk food here and there is no big deal. I just ate some myself. Just don't do it every single day, to the exclusion of nutritious food. CR without ON isn't CRON.
4. Eating huge amounts of nutritious food. I'm sorry, but if your weight is still above the "normal" range for your height, even if your COM stats are great every day, you may be doing ON, but I doubt you are doing CR, unless you have EXTRAORDINARILY heavy bones. You actually have to reduce calories at some point. And while we're all quite different in terms of weight, chances are you're going to end up low normal to underweight. I don't look skinny at all, but I am about five pounds "underweight" for my height... and dropping, but very, very slowly now that I am lean. Not more than a pound a month! (with some fluctuations for water weight and time of month, etc.)
5. Eating well and then ignoring your alcohol calories. Now I know how it is... I am a huge, huge fan of excellent wine, and I understand the temptation to eat a light, healthy day and then finish out the calories that others would eat in a chocolate brownie in a second (or third) glass of wine. But calories are still calories! And those alcohol calories age you in ways different even from food... you know that puffy, bloated look that heavy drinkers get way before their time. So ladies and gentlemen, we must enjoy the fruit of the vine, but in much moderation. What would be moderation for our friends of normal weight is too much wine for us. We must accept that we can not keep up, and grow fond of seltzer water. There is a bar across the street from me that serves up the freshest, sparkliest seltzer water I've ever had. I crave it in the middle of the night. With a lime.
Posted by april at May 5, 2007 4:34 PM
Comments
I feel that by getting so defensive when faced with accusations of an eating disorder, you inadvertently send the message that an eating disorder is something to be ashamed of.
Posted by: K at May 5, 2007 8:25 PM
K,
"Defensive" implies that the reaction is excessive and inappropriate... is it? Would you rather she shrug off such accusations as if they were made about her sexual orientation or her real hair color? This would trivialize the seriousness of eating disorders.
To vehemently deny that one's dietary practice means having an eating disorder and to give counter-examples is simply being responsible. It doesn't imply that there is shame in having an ED. It simply clarifies that: 1) Eating disorders are a big deal -and- 2) They are nothing like the actions, motivations, or effects involved in a healthy CRON regimen.
Posted by: Brian K at May 5, 2007 10:46 PM
Thank you for the clarification, Brian.
For the record, my hair is not really red. It's naturally brown. Like most women in Philadelphia and New Jersey, I color it.
There is nothing to be ashamed of with having an eating disorder, yet I think it is fair to clarify the difference between having one and CR, especially when there is so much media attention mistakenly linking the two.
a
Posted by: april at May 6, 2007 1:51 AM
I thought CR starting age is more of an individual thing. I was 5ft 7" for at least a few years before I started at age 20.5 years. Plus is there any evidence that CR with optimal nutrition does actually prevent or stop any further mental development and the various brain changes? If so, then it might be worth leaving CRON until ones late 20's as 21 would still be far to early. If anything a mild form of CRON starting from 20 would probably help your brain. I know I went from getting 50% ~ in most tests to getting 90-100% in all tests after starting CR.
Posted by: Matt - uk at May 6, 2007 3:30 AM
Hi Matt,
I'm sure optimal nutrition helps, and you were pretty darned close to 21 when you started. What scares me is people attempting to start in their teens when they may be at full height but not fully done with brain development. One would hate to lose one's brain!
a
Posted by: april at May 6, 2007 4:43 AM
Hi, first of all I want to say I really enjoy your blog.
I'm fairly new top CRONing but I wonder why it wouldn't be OK to to eat small amounts of junk food. If seems like most people can get their nutrients somewhere below their calorie level, and I think if you have some kind of treat, something you enjoy, even if it is low nutrient density, it will be eisier to stick to it, and more enjoyable, so I don't see what's wrong with that.....some people like bread, rice, sweets,and other things that many CRON practitioners would never touch, but as long as you are getting the nutrients you need,and staying at a low calorie level I think that's OK, it's just like having a drink or a glass of wine occasionally, there's usually room to fit it in IF you plan carefully, and without the occasional treat, CRONing could be kind of dull..I've found that I can get all the nutrients and all the nutrients I need, and all the enjoyment I got from eating ad lib, if I just use a little will power and planning.
Also I you are right on about the binging and fasting, we need nutrients every day, you are probably better off getting a few mor calorie's and all your nutrients than eating CR but not getting the ON....I don't see any problem with fasting for 10-24 hours, but beyond that, if you eat this way you won;t be getting good nutrition
:-)
Posted by: Bodhi at May 6, 2007 12:29 PM
wow. Somehow everyone manages to completely misunderstand.
Of course it's fine to eat a bit of junk food here and there! what I am discouraging is eating junk food constantly, in low calorie amounts, to the exclusion of good nutrition.
a
Posted by: april at May 6, 2007 12:41 PM
Accusations of an eating disorder are being made to discredit CRON and its' practitioners. Their vigorous defense of the practice has therefore nothing to do with suggesting that an eating disorder is something to be ashamed of, it is rather a necessary response to a public attack on their credibility.
Posted by: Mo at May 6, 2007 2:07 PM
I think the reason that Bodhi was confused is because your entry states, "3. Eating small amounts of junk food. This is not CRON. This is stupid and silly and counterproductive to your health." I was actually confused by this as well... I think that maybe you meant to say something different.
Posted by: Hilary at May 6, 2007 5:03 PM
But read the very next line that says, "Of course occasional junk food is fine!" I added yet another line to clarify.
I am of all people the biggest fan of occasional junk food. But eating very low calories without regard for nutrition would be bad, and when you look at some of the diets of people who claim to be doing CRON, that's what they're doing. So that's why I mention it. If you've got your nutrition for the day and you have calories left, no big deal to eat something less than optimal, or to go out to dinner once a week or so and eat who knows what. It's a matter of making sure you get good nutrition on a consistent basis, which most of the CR bloggers are. I would just be concerned about anyone who is not crunching their nutrition and is simply eating less food.
a
Posted by: april at May 6, 2007 7:39 PM
April -
I find it interesting that the eating disorder community is as appalled at CRON being considered an eating disorder as the CRON community is. An eating disorder is a psychological disease. It is not chosen. It is all about appearance and the quest to be thin - to be "perfect".
CRON is a choice. It is about nutrition and health and longevity. It has nothing to do with appearance or weight (though, as you mention, it is certainly a nice side effect).
Critics who call CRON an eating disorder aren't doing either group any favors. They are invalidating (is that a word?) eating disorders by implying they are a choice and that they are all about food. And they are dragging CRON down by comparing it to mental illness instead of recongizing it as a healthy and CHOSEN lifestyle.
I'm sorry to see all the idiots in the world who are so quick to criticize CRON without a single fact or personal experience. It would be so much nicer if your journal could be more about the successes, the experience and the science behind CRON than having to constantly having to defend it and answer CRON 101 questions that could be answered if someone were to take 2 minutes to research the answer themselves.
I wish you much luck with your hectic schedule and with the unnecessary battle to defend the virtues of CRON.
Posted by: Lucy at May 7, 2007 9:12 AM
Hi Lucy,
Thanks!
Hopefully this phase of media frenzy comparing CRON to an ED will subside soon. It is quite disrespectful to both groups, as well as being inaccurate.
a
Posted by: april at May 8, 2007 9:05 AM
As a person with an eating disorder (ED), I would like to comment on: "It is all about appearance and the quest to be thin - to be "perfect".
Although, it is a quest to be thin, its a superficial reason. Thin represents so much more, like perfection, purity, or the desire to "disappear".
I think a major differnce in their diets is that an eating disordered person will not likely eat foods like EVOO, even though healthy, they just have too many calories.
I respect what you do, because I think the american culture of junk food is wrong and gross. It's important to respect our bodies and give it the nutrition it needs- calories included. I haven't once seen you say that 500 calories a day is healthy, instead you preach sustainablity.
Posted by: E at June 3, 2007 4:35 PM