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September 29, 2007
Just Because You Don't Like It, It Doesn't Make It a Disorder
Before I waste one more minute when I could be on the treadmill, cooking, or doing any number of things that are useful and productive arguing with people who insist that CR must be an eating disorder, I decided to compile, as best I can, all the entries I've written in the past so that said people may reference them and stop wasting my time. Their arguments are so consistent that any of these is practically a one-size-fits-all. So why bother responding every time? Life, no matter how radically extended, is too short.
Reply to Katherine Stevens on the Rudd Center blog.
Second Rudd Center article accusing us of having an eating disorder, my reply, and their webmistress' reply to my reply.
My response to Kate Taylor's article in Slate, which was at best pathetic and at worst a violation of journalistic ethics.
Wow, this is an old one. Just found it from goggling myself + anorexia!
This is one of my all time favorites, On the Nature of Compulsion.
Ooooooh, another all time fave, Women's Magazines.
On my personal experience of having close friends who really did have anorexia.
Another basic one on the differences.
Great post from Emi, who really knows.
More fun stuff in comments... recent exchange with "Jackie:"
I would agree with you on one point: that there exists a distinct paradox where a woman's weight is concerned. Either a woman is fat, or she is weight-obsessed and "anorexic." On the other hand, I think there is one fatal flaw with the rest of your argumentation here. You claim that NOT ALL women have eating disorders (either ones that involve eating too much/emotionally, or ones that eat too little/obsessively). In claiming that not all women have issues with food in this way you seem to be offering yourself as an example... because what other profound example could you have? But you CAN'T offer yourself as a proper example of a woman free of disordered eating. I would say all this CR business is just as obsessive as anorexia. Perhaps the goals and the driving force behind it are healthier (and I use that word very loosely) but it is still obsessive to the core. It seems quite disordered (and a great waste of time and energy) to be "in a state of panic" (for example) because a coworker suggests you go out to lunch with him. That is just as disruptive as any other sort of disordered eating. Food and thoughts of food should not dominate a person's life so entirely. So while at the end of the day I agree with the general principle that not all women have disordered eating, and with the thought that women in America are forced to suffer through the weight paradox, I do not believe that you personally can offer yourself as a paradigm of the "healthy, eating disorder-free" woman. A woman can only be free of eating disorders if she eats to live (to use a horrible cliche) as opposed to living to eat. And while I know the "science" behind CR promotes itself as a system designed for "eating to live," in reality, it is just the opposite because it forces a person to obsess about food -- which in my opinion is definitive of "living to eat."
I am not trying to criticize, here, by the way. I'm just a little frightened by CR. It makes me feel that the world will never be free of this weight obsession that it seems to have acquired in the last several decades.
Posted by: Jackie at September 25, 2007 11:18 AM
And I reply:
Oh for heaven's sake Jackie, how many times have I addressed that?
I may be obsessed with union organizing, but I am definitely not obsessed with food. Unlike those with eating disorders, be they anorexics or compulsive overeaters, those of us who practice CR actually love food, love our bodies, and love our lives. Anyone who actually knows one of us, and actually knows an anorexic, can tell you there's a big, big difference.
In fact, I think we're a lot happier with our relationship with food than your average American. We just don't eat mindlessly: we eat for actual reasons, not just because food is shoved in our face at every turn. We eat for nutrition, we eat for energy, we eat because we enjoy the experience of good food shared in the company of those we love, but we don't just eat because it's there. And most of us manage to avoid eating just because of social pressure. Who are other people to tell me when and where and what I should eat? That's all social pressure to eat or not eat is... why would I allow that to make my decisions anymore than I would allow social pressure to convince me to take dangerous drugs or do anything else harmful? Maybe I am scarred by the eighties, but I am a firm believer in "Just say no thank you," if someone is pushing you to do something you don't want to do.
I am so tired of this line of argumentation, which is not really your fault as you probably haven't read the zillions of entries I (and others) have already written about it.
To pay attention to something, to research it and decide what is the course of action that one wants to take, and then to take that action, to reach one's goals, even when it takes self-discipline and self-control isn't a disorder. It's behaving rationally.
But in our society, any symptom of self-control gets hit with "disorder! obsession!"
I think if you read the blog a bit longer, you'll find that CR is not disruptive to my life at all... at least no more than traffic lights are to driving. I have so much more energy, feel so much better, never get sick, and I don't waste any time hating my body, cause I love the way I look and feel!
You know what was disruptive to my life? How I lived before CR. Getting a cold twice a year, having to buy new clothes because I kept gaining weight, having to wait for the elevator because I was too unfit to climb the stairs to my forth floor office. Wow, I've saved the time I spend chopping vegetables already!
But you know what's really disruptive to life?
Aging, disease, and death. Aging really slows you down. Disease sure can ruin a good time. And death speaks for itself.
It seems to me that having a "I'll make choices to improve how I feel today and my long term health," is actually the non-disordered attitude here. Perhaps your priorities aren't in line with mine... no problem! It's quite unusual to be interested in CR, and if you are scared of it, I suggest you stay as far away as possible. Perhaps something in you can't handle the idea of anyone exercising conscious control over his or her food intake. A lot of former anorexics feel that's too close to their bad experience to be able to be in contact with it, and I totally respect that. It's wise for people to set their own boundaries. I don't watch scary or violent movies or tv shows because I don't want to put those images into my brain. My choice: others love Law and Order.
But I do wish folks could stop projecting their own issues onto us. It wasn't such a problem when there were only male CR practitioners, but now that women do it, people assume we're all anorexics. If only any of you actually met us... you'd see how vibrantly healthy and happy we are. To the point where the girls among us often get called vain because we love our bodies that much. Of course, it's annoying to be mistaken for being in my early twenties when I'm 33 and trying to be taken seriously at a national meeting for work, but it's a price I'm willing to pay. That didn't happen pre-CR, for sure.
Loving our bodies enough to take care of them, in a real way. Radical, I know.
I apologize if I sound harsh. It's just that I've been through this territory so many times that I have lost patience. Please don't feel unwelcome, and browse some of the earlier entries if you want a better understanding of what's going on. Especially the "Women's Magazines" article from the old site, which if you google aprilcr blogspot "women's magazines" will probably come up but I'm on such a slow connection right now that I can't seem to find it.
a
Posted by: april at September 25, 2007 12:57 PM
I didn't mean to upset you, I was just making an observation regarding what I view as faulty logic. I have read only one or two items on this blog and decided to post my opinion on those few. I will of course cease and desist if I've offended you in some way. But I would imagine that someone who begins a blog such as this might be open to opposing lines of thought. Really, I'm just trying to understand the mindset, I suppose.
You say that you are happier with your lives and with your eating than the average American is... but that isn't saying much. It's merely an attack aimed at a group so general that I don't think you can make it with any modicum of certainty and would be foolish to try to do so. Also, I'm sorry but you still haven't made any headway on denying the obsessive aspect of CR. If you need to weigh your food and enter every single thing you put in your mouth into a computer program... that is obsessive. (Or at the very least it necessitates much more time and effort than I am willing to put into food. Which isn't a proper arguement in and of itself, I know.) You claim that you are happier because you don't eat mindlessly. But it seems you do just the opposite: you eat TOO mindfully. You've reacted to one problem by turning to the extreme opposite... Personally I greatly enjoy the things I eat. I eat healthily and when I want to eat. I know what is healthy and what isn't and I eat when I'm hungry and stop when I'm full. I am also at a very healthy weight, rarely get sick, and am very happy with my body. Period. There is no calculating or worrying (by worrying I mean in the literal sense of the word...).
I think you've been ruffled by what you read as my equating anorexia with CR. I can understand why that would upset you. I don't believe they are the same. As I noted above, the thought processes and justifications are opposing. Furthermore, I'm sure you are a great deal healthier than an anorexic. But, to me, they both seem to be eating disorders. That's the only way I would equate the two. I would tend to label CR as "disorder" because it seems to me, and clearly I could be wrong, that CR-followers can't stop what they are doing. It seems that once a person really turns to a CR lifestyle it becomes a drug of necessity. Now an overeater functions in the same way. Binging... they can't stop doing it. Anorexics are the same: they seem to crave the control etc. They can't stop. Isn't that the definition of disorder? You claim that you get "wiggy" if you break your calorie count for the day. It is a very unforgiving way of life, I think. If you were to discover that CR wasn't as beneficial to your health as you had at one time believed it to be -- would you be able to stop? Would your life suddenly be alot less meaningful? Would you regret the way you've lived? I'm only asking these questions out of curiousity, not as a means of leveling an attack at you.
In closing, my problem with the CR belief structure as I see it, I believe, is that at the end of the day, the goal (in the extreme and purely theoretical form) seems to be to basically achieve immortality. That is not an endgame I can get behind. I suppose you could call CR a new-age religion in that sense. It seems to be the result of an excessive fear of death. But perhaps you can change my mind, if you are so inclined to respond.
Posted by: Jackie at September 25, 2007 2:31 PM
Jackie,
Again, your comment shows that you haven't had time to look into the matter fully.
Lots of people go on and off CR... I've done so! But I find that I *feel* better, day to day, if I am doing proper CR. That's just how I feel... physically and mentally. Others may differ.
See Erin's comments above re: bank accounting. I wish I were as careful with my credit card as I am with what I put into my body! But then again, health is more valuable than money, isn't it? I do pretty well... I spend healthily, as you would no doubt say, and I'm not in any debt. But I'd like to be more mindful there too, and to save more and have more put away for retirement. Planning ahead is good!
Frankly, who are you to say that I eat *too* mindfully. Too mindfully for whom? For you, or for me? No one is trying to get you to do CR. I have tried both ways, and many varaitions, several times. I know what works for me. I suppose I could say I'm sorry if that bothers you, but I'm not. It's not my problem if it bothers you: it's yours.
I think that "obsessive" is a meaningless term. Do I display any of the classic behaviors of an obsessive compulsive in my relationship to food? No, I don't. Do I find that my eating habits get in the way of doing other things I want to do? No... actually, they facilite doing other things I want to do. Like feeling well and having energy and looking great in anything I put on.
If you had gathered a bit more information, you would be aware that no one thinks that CR will be a gate to immortality. At best it may slow the aging process a bit. At worst, it decreases our risk of disease and improves our health and quality of life in the here and now.
For me, I spend a lot less energy practicing CR than I spent worrying about my weight before I started CR. It takes a lot less time to just feel good in one's skin. I feel good in my body, and I go about the rest of my life. My job is so demanding that trust me, I don't have a lot of time on my hands.
You write:
"Furthermore, I'm sure you are a great deal healthier than an anorexic. But, to me, they both seem to be eating disorders. That's the only way I would equate the two. I would tend to label CR as "disorder" because it seems to me, and clearly I could be wrong, that CR-followers can't stop what they are doing. It seems that once a person really turns to a CR lifestyle it becomes a drug of necessity. Now an overeater functions in the same way. Binging... they can't stop doing it. Anorexics are the same: they seem to crave the control etc. They can't stop. Isn't that the definition of disorder? You claim that you get "wiggy" if you break your calorie count for the day. It is a very unforgiving way of life, I think. If you were to discover that CR wasn't as beneficial to your health as you had at one time believed it to be -- would you be able to stop? Would your life suddenly be alot less meaningful? Would you regret the way you've lived? I'm only asking these questions out of curiousity, not as a means of leveling an attack at you."
As I said, it's clear that you haven't done much investigation into the topic which is fine... you're still welcome to write in! But you're wrong: many CR folks go off and on or to different levels based on evolving scientific evidence and their own personal priorities. If I were to find that CR would not extend life in humans, I would probably stay where I am now (very moderate CR) but not attempt to go any further. I feel better when I'm eating better: it's just a fact for me. When my body is in a state of optimal health, not dive-bombed with excess calories, I feel fantastic. So why would I want to give that up? But I probably wouldn't go any lower in my calories, I'd stay as is rather than trying to go lower.
I want to feel, when I'm forty, as good as I do now. I want to be able to function, when I'm sixty, as well as I do now. I want to be alive and well when I'm 80 and 90 and 100. At the moment, calorie restriction is the only intervention that has slowed biological aging in mammals. I hope that eventually other, biomedical advances will become available. Hence my support for SENS research, the Mprize, and my partner, whose dinner I cook so he can write about said research.
If I found out now that CR wouldn't increase lifespan, I wouldn't regret for a minute the way I've lived. Because for me (and this is what you don't seem to be able to understand) it's no sacrifice. I eat well, I pay attention, sometimes I go out or eat a dessert and I enjoy it without guilt because I'm no longer living in the pathetic negative feedback loop that most women are stuck in where food = moral judgement. Food is just food. It's great, when it's great, and it can do great things, like nourish my body and provide me with sensual pleasures. But as you said, I eat to live, I don't live to eat. Food is a great part of life, but only one of many parts. And I'm not willing to sacrifice my health for more cheeseburgers.
a
Posted by: april at September 25, 2007 4:03 PM
And here is where you come in, dear readers. See if you can find more pieces I've written on the difference between CR and anorexia... and email me the links so I can improve this page!
Thanks, as always!
Posted by april at September 29, 2007 11:13 AM
Comments
As someone who has recovered from anorexia, I sometimes wonder whether many of those who attack CR have histories of eating disorders themselves...or have a close friend/family member who has struggled with an eating disorder. I say this because it has been my experience that - when I read about CR - I initially feel somewhat anxious, even panicky. My gut reaction is to criticize the practice, yet if I am able to step back, I realize that I am actually feeling guilty about not eating a CR diet. In fact, I think that my tendency to want to lash out at CR is based more in jealousy than rational thought. My experiences have taught me that I can't embark on a restrictive yet healthy "diet" (for lack of a better term) without overdoing it and ultimately forgetting about the healthy part and focusing on the restrictive part. I am jealous of those who can - that is, I'm jealous of those who can restrict their calories in a sane way ;-) ...and I am jealous of those who are able to make healthy food choices without attaching moral significance to those choices (the fact that I feel guilty about not practicing CR is a clear sign to me that I shouldn't...because I know that, were I to begin CR in part because of guilt, I'd be setting myself up for a descent into anorexia again).
The other reason why I suspect that many of those who feel the need to criticize CR have a history of disordered eating is that, when I read about you measuring your food, knowing the caloric and nutritional content of everything you eat, etc., it sounds eerily similar to how I used to be - it makes me think back to a miserable time in my life. I think that in general, it's hard for people to realize that two behaviors that overtly seem the same can in fact be completely different. My obsession with what I ate truly was an obsession, and my behaviors were fueled entirely out of anxiety and guilt (though at the time, I thought I was being completely rational!). People say that anorexia is about control, but it really isn't. Perhaps at the start it is, but when entrenched in the disorder, you realize that you can't stop (recovery is about learning to regain control). True CR practitioners, on the other hand, are motivated by reason.
All that said, I do believe that CR is a risky endeavor, one that should be carefully considered before adopting. If a person has a history of doing things in extremes and being incapable of moderation, it probably isn't the wisest choice. Yet I suspect that you would agree with this...
Posted by: Jane at September 29, 2007 12:48 PM
Wow - CR is an obsession because once you start doing it, you can't stop! Like it's some mindless thing, not just a noticeable improvement that it is obviously worth doing.
I had the same experience with flossing. I never could get flossing down until I tried GUM Soft-Picks. Now, I must use them every day and sometimes several times. I guess they are an obsession now.
This is the same phenomenon as runners - or even people who do yoga every day. They feel better and so they keep doing it. Despite the fact that it takes a lot more time and trouble than weighing and recording what you eat. I would say runners are more "obsessive" than CR folk, since they screw up their knees. My knees are just fine.
Posted by: Little MR at September 30, 2007 12:32 PM
Little MR, Jane never said CR itself was an obsession. In fact, she went out of her way to say the exact opposite ("True CR practitioners...are motivated by reason"). She said that she was afraid that if *she* tried CR, given her own history with EDs, she would become obsessive about it.
As April herself has said, we live in a society where it is really, really hard to have a reasonable relationship with food. Plates, spoons and portions are huge. The TV urges us to indulge. Meetings and co-workers' desks are festooned with bagels and candy. Vending machines are everywhere. Fighting all of this, however, brings problems of its own. Counting, weighing and measuring can trigger ED in some people, and that's a serious mental (and physical) health consideration. Yet it has a really attractive side too, because it's simple and powerful. But for people who are on the ED spectrum, that is precisely the problem. The problem is not that counting, weighing and measuring your food is so damn hard--it's that it's so damn easy! Seductively so, and, for people with certain issues, dangerously so. Yet, the health benefits are so obvious, if only the potential danger could be managed. So people's responses are naturally complicated.
I think a lot of people who are searching and working out what's best for them come to this blog to help themselves figure things out. When they post ambivalent responses to CR, some other readers see it as an attack. This is really unfortunate.
Posted by: Yvonne at October 1, 2007 8:46 AM
Yvonne,
Unless I am mistaken, Mary (Little MR) was responding to Jackie's comments, not Jane's.
Jackie actually referred to CR as being an eating disorder. I feel pretty justified in taking offense at that... and I suspect that's what Mary was irked by as well.
Jane's comments on the other hand were quite respectful, on the other hand, and I will address them when I have time.
a
Posted by: april at October 1, 2007 9:56 AM
My mistake. With Little MR's comment coming right after Jane's, and since Jane had also talked about obsession, I thought Little MR was referring to Jane.
Online communication really is perilous, isn't it :)
Posted by: Yvonne at October 1, 2007 2:43 PM