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April 4, 2008
My Patience, Tried
Yvonne writes, in response to an entry by Robin on how yes, one can lose weight and keep it off, that the fat acceptance folks are just waiting for us to regain our weight at or before the five year point, and that since Robin is only a year or so in, she doesn't count.
Then she (Yvonne) writes:
Since April is only in her fourth year of CR (and is currently engaged in a bet to shed something like ten pounds as rapidly as safely possible), she doesn't count as an example of permanent weight loss either. Close, but not yet.
Uh, no.
Pre-CR, I weighed 137 to 140 pounds (depending on which scale you believe) at 5' 2". Throughout my adult life, I struggled with weight, finding it nearly impossible to lose weight until I discovered the magic of the RDAs via calorie restriction. My current 115 (actually I think it's a bit lower now but I'm not sure cause I'm on the road with no scale) is above my CR low weight, and I want to keep my calories lower than I have in the last six months, but it also reflects a tremendous uptake in exercise, with resulting muscle mass. And guess what?
You don't have to be a body image counselor to recognize that 115 is not overweight!
Maybe it would be if I were four feet tall.
So let's see... I've maintained weight loss, at a weight that is undeniably in the "healthy" range, with excellent nutrition, increased muscle mass (pre-CR I did not exercise, yes, friends, that was all fat) and excellent health.
To me, that sounds like permanent weight loss.
I happen to want to take it one step beyond, to actual CR, which is quite different from losing weight and maintaining a weight that is healthy in terms of reducing disease risk but being unlikely to actually slow biological aging. Difficulty in doing that does not indicate that I am somehow fat by nature and that long term weight loss is impossible. Long term CR is hard as hell, but for me, maintaining my *healthy* weight is so easy that I'm often shocked. Just by maintaining the very rudimentary basics of my CR practice (such as the high protein breakfast and avoiding high sugar drinks, etc.) I can still indulge in an extra glass of wine, go out for a huge fancy dinner, eat desserts, order two sushi rolls (the whole roll, eight pieces total) instead of sashimi, and stay thin! Yes, a size four! And healthy! Not anorexic, bullemic, or freakin' nuts.
I mean, at least not nuts about this. I can be pretty nutty about other things, just ask my co-workers.
Point being, let's not confuse the difficulty of doing hardcore CR with some kind of difficulty maintaining healthy weight loss. If I were to gain back up to 137 again, then I'd say you have a point. But I'm not. I've remained steady in the low end of the "healthy" range thoughout this little detour from the hardcore CR path. This time, I'm going back to hardcore, but with exercise, which means I eat a little more than I did when I was sedentary.
But here is what really tries my patience. I get the feeling that Yvonne is a very nice, genuinely curious person. I trust that she means well. She seems to be somewhat confused at the difference between healthy weight loss and maintanence and actual CR, but a lot of people are, and that's okay.
But the message that she's sending, by saying that by going from 102 (my CR low weight... well, I did briefly hit 99 but not for long so I don't count it) which is decidedly *underweight* (likely result of calorie restriction, go figure) to a weight of 115 which is dead center of healthy on all the weight charts, that I am somehow failing to maintain long term healthy weight loss, and somehow proving that the contention that long term weight loss is impossible... well, that's just absurd.
You can't have it both ways. You can't say, "Oh, no, is CR really healthy, is it really healthy to be that thin, shouldn't you just be a 'healthy' but higher weight and eat 'healthy' but not restrict so much isn't that healthier than real CR?" and then turn around and say, "Aha! You are now no longer at your all time low, underweight super-CR'd no muscle weight! You prove that long term weight loss is impossible!"
(Actually, you can't even have it one way... even someone who had never questioned whether or not CR was healthy would be dead wrong to call my weighing 115 as opposed to 102 evidence that long term healthy weight loss and maintainence is impossible. Again: pre-CR, I was overweight at 137 - 140. Now, four years later, I weigh 115, solidly in healthy range, well below my previous adult weights. I guess I would just find it somewhat less annoying -- though no less incorrect, if you wouldn't dislike a double-negative -- coming from someone who didn't have a history of asserting -- also incorrectly -- that "healthy" higher weights are actually *healthier* than CR'd underweight weights. Healthy weights may be healthy, but they won't slow biological aging. CR might. CR leads in most cases to being underweight... we've been round this mulberry bush quite a few times.)
It's a good thing I'm not anorexic, or otherwise eating disordered, because those kinds of statements (along with the charming media saying "You're not skinny enough!" when I actually was 102!) would definitely trigger someone who had an unhealthy relationship with food to starve, purge, or whatever. Luckily, I have the sense to say "Think about it people! 115 is not overweight! Size 4 is not fat!" I am in great shape, great health, not as thin as I was when I was at my lowest calorie level, but without a doubt, a healthy weight. I am an example of maintaining healthy weight loss over a long period of time... not quite at the five year mark yet, but I'll be sure to report when I am. If I go back to being overweight, I'll be sure to let you know.
And while I'm at it, the reason why I gained weight from my CR absolute low point is not because I'm genetically doomed to weigh 115 (or any other weight.) It's because I ate more calories! Yes, eating more calories makes you gain weight. And you know why I ate more calories? Not because the evil food environment forced me (though it didn't make things easier) not because my metabolism mysteriously slowed down, but because I made choices, all too frequently, to eat more! Aha! Yes, at the root of my apparently scandalous weight gain, is not immutable facts of biology over which I have no control, but my very own choices. Perhaps I am a biological anomoly, but I find that eating more calories causes me to gain weight, while consuming fewer causes me to lose.
Real CR is hard, much harder than maintaining a "healthy" weight, and should not be confused with simple obesity avoidance. Difficulty in doing real, hardcore CR should not be confused with difficulty maintaining healthy weight.
Though if people were to stop confusing CR with obesity avoidance, it would eliminate one major topic of blog entries. I'd have to post more recipes, I guess.
Posted by april at April 4, 2008 5:25 AM
Comments
SO glad you're back! Maybe the MPrize people need a new web geek. IAE, this is an excellent post, April. One question (if you don't mine sharing this): what is your precent of body fat? Since you've increased your exercise so significantly, has it dropped quite a bit? More recipes would be lovely, when you have the time. Just made your incredible & delectable Shrimp & Mango 625 again the other evening and not a gram was wasted! JD :-)
Posted by: Judith at April 4, 2008 8:48 AM
I agree with you, but I think another part of her argument was that it hasn't been five years for you yet, and they see five years as a magic marker. So maybe you could say something about that--like there is nothing magic about five years, and four years is a good amount of time... or whatever.
Another fat acceptance argument that really bothers me is "I can't keep the fat off, so fat must not be unhealthy." Fat is an endocrine organ, its very existence has effects on the body, like it or not. Physiology 101 says that fat levels mirror insulin resistance--guess what, insulin resistance affects lots of things! Okay, getting off-topic...
Posted by: Sara at April 4, 2008 9:22 AM
I think the fat acceptance people go too far in asserting that being obese is healthy. It's in response, however, to everyone else saying that being any degree at all above a certain weight is de facto, unhealthy. As for the five year mark, I hardly think that really refers to you, April (since, even at 137, you were never obese, just slightly overweight). With Robin, if she started out at a high normal weight, gained more weight through pregnancy, and then lost it, this is still not being morbidly obese. Such weight loss really should not be compared to those who are 100+ pounds over their normal weight. That's where the five year mark truly is hard to achieve - for those people. In fact, they not only gain back their weight, but put on even more. It's like a boomerang flying back to hit them in the head. Of course, when everyone in the whole world is extremely fat-phobic, even people who do CRON get sucked into the silliness of people questioning if their weight loss is truly valid.
Posted by: Eris at April 4, 2008 11:18 AM
I am 5'2". As a teenager my weight fluctuated between 130 and 145. As a college freshman I began the process of learning how to eat to maintain a slim weight. I got down to about 120 and stayed there give or take 5 pounds until my mid twenties. Then I got really serious about managing my need to eat and I got down to about 110 as a regular weight. At my lowest I was 99 pounds, however, that was very difficult for me to maintain and I did not know about CR at the time so I began to think maybe I was flirting with anorexia. I now weigh about 108. I am working on slowly losing to 100-105, but my emphasis is healthful calorie restriction. I am now 46 years old. I have raised two children, maintained a career, obtained a graduate degree in my field and have an extremely happy marriage. The fact that my figure seems to get better as I age and that both my husband and I maintain youthful weights helps. You can certainly change and maintain your setpoint if that becomes a priority. If I had not set out to change the woman I was inadvertently becoming as a teen, I am sure I would be one fat older woman today. I appreciate all the CR bloggers who validate each the day the way that I have been eating for years.
Posted by: anne at April 5, 2008 3:31 PM
When I started doing CR about 6 months ago, anyone looking at me would consider me skinny at 5'9" and 134lbs. But I felt terrible, exhausted all the time, and definitely not healthy. I did what April suggested in her commandments, focusing on ON to begin with, not on CR. My energy levels skyrocketed, I was never hungry, and my weight steadily dropped to my current 119lbs. Now I'm technically underweight, but am so much healthier than I ever was at my "ideal/healthy" former weight. Why are people so set on defending the idea that you can be healthy and overweight, but attack those of us who are underweight as obviously unhealthy. It's such a crazy double-standard.
Posted by: Katerina at April 7, 2008 12:43 AM
Katerina--actually, most size-acceptance people do leap in to defend the "underweight" as well, seeing the BMI categories as arbitrary and counterproductive.
April--I didn't mean to imply, in my original comment, that you were above normal. Lord, no. Just that you were above where you personally wanted to be right now, which is the impression I got from your blog.
The CR-osphere and the fatosphere are divided between people who believe, and people who do not believe, that they can exert control over their weight long-term. Not their health, but their weight.
Fatosphere people have tried, often for many years, and failed. For them, doing what Katerina did didn't work--or at least not for long. If you read their narratives, there's lots of heartbreaking stories of initial triumph followed by a breakdown of the system (whether through an unexpected onslaught of extreme hunger pangs or an unexplained weight gain despite still following the system), partial or total re-gain, confusion, guilt, self-blame, an effort to get back on the straight-and-narrow, a harder time losing the weight this time, another and much greater re-gain, more self-blame, more efforts, the realization that they're in real trouble, and the painful beginning of letting go of the dream of weight control. After having been through all this, often over a period of many years, many fatosphere bloggers are understandably angry, defensive and cynical. Some discuss trying to recover from overwhelming feelings of shame and failure. Understandably, these vulnerable people lash out hard at anything that may seem like a judgment of them or their experience. Even if it wasn't meant that way.
CR-osphere people, on the other hand, have tried and (thus far) succeeded. The earlier in their trajectory they start blogging, though, the more likely it is that they'll end up falling off the wagon. Remember when April wondered where all the new CR blogs had gone? Remember when some of her friends felt guilty because they'd fallen off CR, and she had to reassure them that it was okay?
Both camps have strengths and weaknesses. In my opinion, the main weakness of the fatosphere is its overreliance on the blog "Junkfood Science" for "proof" that fat is Just Great! and we should all relax. (They can and do cite any source at all for evidence that 98% of diets fail over the long term, but for evidence that being fat poses no health risks, the links to Junkfood Science rise alarmingly. In my opinion, it doesn't matter whether fat is "healthy" or not--it just is, and most people have to live with it.)
The main weakness of the CR-osphere, imho, is its naive rugged individualism, its faith in its own efforts, and its occasional confusion of the power to eat healthy food with the power to affect the outcome of that choice (thinness, longevity, freedom from heart disease).
The fatosphere is more realistic about how things really are; the CR-osphere has great recipes and tips :) and has a wonderfully optimistic atmosphere.
When Robin scolded the fatosphere's failure to bow in awe at those who achieve a one-year weight loss, however, I felt impelled to speak up. Lots of people in the fatosphere *have* lost weight for a whole year, and often more. They have a long-term perspective which the CR-osphere sometimes lacks. I felt that that needed to be said, both for the sake of fairness and also clarity in terms of what we mean by "weight loss."
Posted by: yvonne at April 7, 2008 11:25 AM
Mm, there's a difference between weight-loss and excellent health, and presumably, CRON practitioners, according to some ideal, want excellent health.
Having spent time on the ON side of eating before, there's a temptation to think that an optimal diet somehow gives you a superhero(ine) body without other changes in your life (exercise, sleep, living and work conditions, relationships, ...).
The transtheoretical model of change describes a cycle of adaption to a lifestyle change that includes stages and loops among stages. 5 Years is a suggested transition for one stage to another, but people in one stage can go back to earlier stages for different reasons.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transtheoretical_Model
In a text on this model, post 5 years, you had reached "termination" stage in the cycle, although even then you could loop back, under some conditions.
5 years is just a number, anyway.
See ya, April.
Posted by: Noah at April 23, 2008 8:40 PM