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December 14, 2008
Lately It Occurs To Me...
I received this comment this morning on my "Reckless and Irresponsible" entry:
Dear April,
I hope you don't take this personally - I'm just commenting on the topic, not on YOUR practice of CR - but I also read Kate Taylor's articles and I think her point is valid. She states explicitly that she's not calling CR anorexia, but that they have certain features in common. There is an excellent book called "Health Food Junkies: Orthorexia Nervosa..." and I think it gives a very clear and very non-judgmental description of the negative psychological effects that can occur if you become obsessed with eating perfectly. CR, with it's encouragement of weighing & measuring, of not wasting a single calorie, of getting exactly 100% of your RDA and counting every mg of every vitamin to make sure...I think it can easily turn into an obsession for many people (as can many other health-oriented diets). Some of the main psychological effects of orthorexia are: social isolation, obsessiveness and constant thoughts about food, and a great deal of guilt and self-berating when you eat something "bad". Oh -- and the book says that another psychological effect of these diets is that they can instill a sense of superiority in people, e.g., "Look at those degenerates eating fries and Coke - disgusting!"
What do you think? Do you think that being obsessed with what you eat is just a price you pay for longevity and good health? Or that it's possible to practice CR naturally and effortlessly, without obsessing over it?
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I have another set of comments to make, regarding your weight -- again, this is in the interest of honesty, and with the understanding that you've made your weight a public topic.
If I recall correctly, you mention a number of times that you are 5'2 and that you are 115 lbs, and you often defend yourself against people who criticize you for not being as thin as they expect a CR person to be.
Leaving those people and their expectations aside, I would like to point out some facts, which you're probably already aware of:
1 - The lower your BMI, the healthier you will be, assuming your BMI is low due to a healthy diet, not due to malnutrition or illness or smoking. This is argued not only by CR practitioners, but by the Chair of the Department of Nutrition of Harvard University, Walter Willett, in his book "Eat, Drink, and Be Healthy." At any rate, 18.5 is taken to be the borderline of normal weight vs. underweight. I took the liberty of calculating your BMI - it's 20.5 - so you are not underweight by "normal" standards. And, presumably, if you weighed lower while keeping healthy and eating well, you'd lower your risk of cancer, cardiovascular illness, etc.
2 - By both European and American conventions of "ideal weight", you're a little bit over. The American convention is, 100 lbs for 5 ft and 5 lbs for every inch above that (so 110 for you); and the European convention is, height in centimeters - 110 = weight in kg. (so for you, you are 157.5 cm and your "ideal" weight would be 47.5 kg - 104.5 lbs - a little lower than the American formulation).
3- From what I understand from CR, it's about being underweight (with optimal nutrition) with respect to your "set-point" weight. I know that you weigh less with respect to your former weight, but I"m not sure if that would count as being CR underweight, b/c it depends on definition of set-point? In my experience, people with the same genes have different set-points based on the kind of (non-calorically-restricted) diet they follow, and I think that your set-point on the SAD diet doesn't necessarily coincide with your healthy biological set-point (what you'd weigh if you ate as much as you wanted, but didn't have access to junk food). What do you think?
Also - the CR mice - they are being compared to mice of normal weight, right, not obese mice? So, I would think that you'd want to be underweight with respect to the normal weight for your height, versus an artificially high weight that you achieve by having susceptible genes and eating the SAD diet.
This is really more of a scientific question -- as far as I can tell, the answer is not yet definitively known (esp. when it comes to defining set-point).
Anyways, I know you might feel a little bit offended, but I hope you understand that I'm not criticizing you - I'm just being honest, b/c I believe that's the most important thing. If you disagree, then I would completely welcome your thoughts.
Respectfully,
Vlada
And my response:
First, I have never claimed to be doing serious CR while being 115 pounds. That weight is a fairly recent development. In hardcore CR mode I weighed 102. Above 108, I seem to lose the positive side effects, such as an invincible immune system. So I have no delusions that I have been in CR mode at 115, but I am working to get back on it and losing weight. In fact now I'm down to 111 and steadily losing.
Another thing you might find confounding is that I've recently taken up a serious yoga and Pilates practice and added considerable muscle. Hard to tell the exact ratios but I'm definitely carrying a lot more muscle weight than I was at my lowest calorie level/most serious CR. It's a hard compromise between the two but I'm convinced that yoga and Pilates will help me maintain long term mobility and agility, very important for long term health and longevity.
As to CR being obsessive, I've addressed that question so many times that I won't do it in detail again. I do not find it socially isolating or obsessive. I think that people object to it because they assume that CR folks would feel as sense of superiority but I really didn't. That's other people's projections, not my issue. I definitely felt better doing serious CR than I do when not, and as you point out, I've tried it both ways.
At 102 and 18% body fat, nobody thought I was the picture of emaciated concentration camp resident that they expect CR people to be. I doubt that anyone will think I'm all that skinny no matter how thin I eventually get. Being curvy seems to do that. And at 115 and a size 4, I definitely don't hear that I'm looking overweight. If anything, most people think I look a lot better now that I have good muscle tone from working out daily.
But I'm definitely working to lower my calories and my weight while not sacrificing exercise. It's harder than simply eating less while being sedentary. One is much hungrier when one takes an hour to an hour and half intense athletich yoga or Pilates class every day in addition to cardio and some weight lifting. But it's worth it, for me.
I am not offended by your comments and encourage you to continue reading if you find the blog of interest. If you look back in the earlier entries, you'll find the records of my weight when I was in good CR mode... 99 being the lowest but 102 being more consistent. And you won't see me whining about having a cold back then because I never got sick!
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And then I went to yoga. Hour and a half long vinyasa practice, super intense. Had a great practice, really felt like I was pushing myself in a good way.
And as I was in tree pose, balancing on one foot while bending over and supporting myself with my hard-earned core strength, I thought to myself: "Why am I defending my weight in a public forum?"
I mean seriously, how did we get to this point?
I looked back at an entry I wrote round Thanksgiving time but never published, feeling like it needed some work:
Lately It Occurs To Me:
What a long, hellish trip it's been.
Well it's that time of year again, isn't it? The time of year when I recall how in 2006 my Thanksgiving holiday with my family in North Carolina was ruined when a Salon.com column denounced me, my partner, and our food choices, by name. I was never contacted for comment. The negative comments, including death threats, started to pour in on my blog. I had no idea when I signed up to do an interview for New York Magazine that this was what I was in for.
What followed was a carnage of nasty articles, including those by Kate Taylor and two entries on the Rudd Center blog, and it was enough for me to swear off media forever. I had no idea that we would be so attacked for our food choices.
I've been sick for awhile now, about a week, and I remember how I never used to get sick when I was on proper CR, and less than 108 pounds. I felt my best then, and was by all objective measures the healthiest. And I was the happiest too. Until we started to be attacked in the media. Seeing my name and that of my partner dragged through all sorts of national media mud upset and scared me. So much so that I wanted to hide. And sure enough, I hid by largely giving up CR as a practice.
Oh how healthy I was! Those who prize eating out, stuffing their faces with whatever is available, and ignoring the health consequences of their indulgence would be proud! Way too many meals out. Sure enough, I didn't feel better, I felt worse. My once invincible immune system now failed me: I came down with whatever illness was passing through the office, whereas during my years of serious CR I had nothing to fear from the local bug. My energy was failing, as was my morale. But no doubt those who despise the idea of anyone having control over what they put into their mouths would rejoice at how very free I seemed with what I would eat.
If I could do it over again, I would turn down every media request. No interviews, no camera time. No chance to pin all the angst and expectation of an obese population and a bunch of angstful journalists on a deadline onto me. Sure, some people have found CR this way. I was never trying to convert anyone. I just wanted to live my life in peace in the healthiest way I found possible.
It took awhile to figure out...
That's where the half-written entry ended. It took awhile to figure out. What, precisely?
First, that my health decisions have nothing to do with other people's expectations. I'm terribly sorry if my height and weight fall one pound short of your conception of ideal, but come to my Pilates class and we'll see who's the most fit.
Second, that attempting to exist in the world of ad lib eaters in a very unhealthy food environment is damn near impossible, and that environment isn't going to change, so it requires an almost superhuman level of self-discipline to exist in the world while doing CR if you're not willing to give up going out and interacting with people all together. I never found my CR practice isolating but that's because I didn't isolate myself: I still enjoyed restaurant meals out, even at 102 (is that thin enough for you? just wondering...) but I made up for it with extremely low calorie days for the rest of the week. It's very hard, but it can be done. And it can be done with optimal nutrition. I did it for years and am actually doing it now as I lose weight. And I feel much, much better than when I was eating more on quotidian days.
Third: I don't want to retire the blog. I've seriously considered it on numerous occasions, but people seem to find the thing interesting and helpful, and I think it's good that I show the struggle of a real human being, not a robot, trying to practice CR in the real world. My life is so not about food, and that's part of the problem. I am not obsessive about my CR: my real life focus is my work, my relationship, and my family, not to mention my yoga and Pilates practice. At times I've wished I had focused more on food, but then sure enough people will say, "You're too obsessed with food."
Moral of the story is: damned if you do and damned if you don't. Too thin, too fat, too fit, not fit enough, too much attention paid to food or not enough. Do you really think you're helping?: That I really need the info that if I were thinner I'd be healthier? Thanks, but as I've written I can see that plainly from the fact that I caught a cold, something that never happened when I was on proper CR. Too thin and I get labeled as having an eating disorder, but move one step closer to "Normal" (and mind you the average American woman weighs 160) and I'm overweight!
Yes, friends, according to our commenter, 115 at 5'2" is overweight. I'm not even that heavy anymore, but I continue to feel outraged at the concept. I am in great shape, wear a size four, and could probably lift and throw said commenter across the room. Yet he/she categorizes me as above ideal weight.
Well, I'm sorry I don't conform to your ideal. Once I've lost all my weight due to full blown CR (already losing but ooooooooops, sorry, still one pound off from "ideal" at 111) you'll label me as too skinny and obsessive. And probably think that I have some sort of superiority complex because I'm thinner than you are.
I can't deal with it anymore. I never wanted to be a role model, and I have often written that I reject that casting. Enjoy the blog if you do, cook the recipes if you'd like. But don't consider me a role model. Grow a backbone and do your own thing. That's what I'm trying to do.
Lately it occurs to me
What a long, strange trip it's been.
Posted by april at December 14, 2008 11:28 AM
Comments
Hi April,
I have been reading you for over a year, but do not think I have commented before.
I have learned a lot by reading your blog, and hope to continue doing do.
I am very impressed by your (and MR's) self-discipline and wish you every success with your chosen course of action.
Don't let the haters and other negative people get you down.
Posted by: Jorge at December 14, 2008 12:49 PM
Hi April,
Have you ever considered turning off the comments option? I read a few other blogs that don't have commenting and I don't see it as a negative thing. You could set up an email address for people who want to contact you. I'd hate to see you retire this blog. I've been reading it regularly since I discovered it after the NY Times article and I really like it! You're not obligated to let people comment on every entry you make and you certainly aren't obligated to respond to every comment. Just a thought...
Posted by: TK at December 14, 2008 2:00 PM
Good for you, April! I love your blog, and find it inspiring. The people who criticize you should find a better use of their time. I think the anonymity of the internet sometimes brings out the worst in people.
Posted by: Jessica at December 14, 2008 2:46 PM
I am glad that I found your blog. I am using CRON as a model for weight loss, at this point. Get optimal nutrition, control calories. Something I will have to do for the rest of my life, or I'll gain it all back. It's too soon to say if I can take it further and actually get "underweight." I'll see. I think people who are doing CRON are pioneers, it is wonderful. I think you have to obsess a little in this country not to gain weight when the average person is overweight or obese, and does not get all of their nutrients. But I love your blog because you have a life, it is not all obsession. And you enjoy your food!
Posted by: Emily at December 14, 2008 4:52 PM
wow april, you seem incredibly defensive. i don't think the commenter said you were overweight, or that HER idea of your ideal weight was 115, or that you shouldn't weigh 115.
she merely asked why you were at 115; why you didn't choose to maintain a lower weight. she sounded genuinely interested in the science. that email was not an attack, and you responded as if it was.
your tone in this post, however, is quite mean spirited and very off-putting.
Posted by: ellie at December 14, 2008 5:43 PM
Ellie and Vlada,
If only a simple and stupid "lol," as you whining, shrieking, proto-ladies say, could convey how fucking funny your weak attempts at innocence, shock and offense are.
"I'm just commenting on the topic, not on YOUR practice of CR ... By both European and American conventions of 'ideal weight', you're a little bit over."
And... scene. Ellie? No one asked. If April succeeded in "off-putting" you, good. Doesn't look like we lost a Eudora Welty. And Vlada? "I'm just being honest, b/c [sic] I believe that's the most important thing"? Nope. This is April's blog. She's not looking for court testimony. She's not looking for much of anything in her readers. She's definitely not looking to be the recipient of their logorrhea. Change the fucking channel, as they say in TV. I mean, did you guys just install your free AOL trial?
But of course, it's not about April, is it? It's about you guys. Your body issues. Your food issues. Your weight issues. Because someone who's fine with that stuff — whether they weigh 270 or 110, isn't going to start gushing tears like you two nancies when you read April's blog.
So maybe next time the cookie table at the work holiday potluck has you a-tremblin' to the Web for how best to re-start your New Year's Eve weight-loss resolution, you should stop at Shapely Prose and The F Word. You may think that lashing out at someone for eating 200-gram bunches of kale regularly (and being pleased to see how much manganese they ingest by doing so) is the answer, but ultimately, you're doing the same thing SP and TWF's "trolls" do when they sneak on and call Oprah names for tipping over 200.
Your problems and interests aren't here. They aren't with my friend April. And they sure as fuck aren't with science. Anyone who comes on to a stranger's blog and dives into the comments section as though it were their own personal middle-school diary, to pour out their unsolicited cranky-pants whining like you two have is interested in one thing: having someone pet you and make you feel better.
But here's the thing about strangers on blogs, especially this blog. We give a shit about science. We give a shit about manganese. But when people want to come and stamp their feet and stake some kind of claim to how that works out in our lives? Well, you can pour all your frustration on us, but don't expect to get any concern back. Plenty of people have obviously been coddling and putting up with your shit in the real world for decades.
It stops here.
How's that for judgmental, mean-spirited and off-putting? I try.
Ciao, douchenozzles.
Posted by: Ashley at December 14, 2008 8:20 PM
Oh for Heaven's sake! Before readers criticise April for being mean-spirited, this woman has been through hell and back during the last couple of years, all because she wanted to help others improve their health. She's just tired of getting this sort of correspondence criticising her, over and over again.
I take my hat off to April. If I'd had to put up with even a fraction of the crap she's had because of writing her blog, I'd have closed it long ago. Do you know how exhausting it is being constantly criticised and judged for what you eat and how you live? How draining to the spirit?
For those who criticise April for being obsessed about food, I say to them: You do not know her. She writes about food and CR on here, sure, because that is the sole purpose of this blog. It's a teaching blog, aimed towards helping others by charting her own progress. I seriously doubt whether she gives CR much thought the rest of the time, because it's just part of her normal everyday lifestyle pattern.
I can't get over just how mean people can be about judging other people's food habits. I mean - seriously! It's just food! April is not asking anyone else to eat this way, she doesn't preach, she doesn't judge. If you don't want to try CR, fine, don't! But for heaven's sake don't knock others who have different lifestyle choices from you.
Bottom Line, Folks: As a fellow blogger, I know that running a successful blog is very draining over the course of several years. If too many people give the blog author too much crap, at some point it all becomes too much hassle, and the author closes the blog. Now I'm being entirely selfish here, because I don't want April to get to that stage. I enjoy my daily dose of April thank you. The world would be a poorer place, in my view, if she took her writing skills elsewhere.
Posted by: Lindsay at December 15, 2008 3:48 AM
I experienced some health issues when I hit my 30s. I started reading a good amount about health and longevity. Read some of Kurzweil's books, which lead me to Aubrey De Grey, which lead me here. I don't practice CR, but I have changed my eating habits significantly since beginning my research.
I think the debate is important. It is important to have the conversation. This blog allows that conversation to take place. I am sure it is not easy being the topic of the debate.
The decisions you make in your life our yours. A mixed bag of praise and hatred will come with most of those decisions. Hear them to the extent that you can - allow them to influence you to the extent you feel - then go back to making your decisions.
I think some of the comments around statistics, like BMI expose it as a poor statistic.
In general, we have poor measures of health - that's why healthy people who run five days a week have major cardiac events and die at 25. BMI is just one more guideline.
I hope you stick with it. Like it or not - your blog is inspirational to some of us.
Posted by: Frank at December 15, 2008 11:41 AM
This post seemed to rattle most readers. I thought that Vlada wanted to get some information for what appear to be differences between the theory and practice of CR. April took some of the comments critically and she was somewhat defensive.
There are discussion groups that try to tackle the more technical aspects of CR, but April does a good job of providing many of the answers. The three basic observations that Vlada made were:
1) If being thinner is healthier, shouldn't a CR practitioner aim for the lowest normal BMI (18.5)? I think that the answer is that a person can practice CR and have a normal weight. The metabolism can adjust to lower calorie consumption and the body is able to defend a higher weight with fewer calories. An example is Mary Robinson who struggles to stay below 117 pounds even while eating only 1100 to 1200 calories per day.
2) Shouldn't a CR practitioner aim at least for an "ideal weight"? Ideal weights are basically aesthetic principles not necessarily linked to CR or longevity. If you want ideal, look at Leonardo's Vitruvian man or the old Greek statue of Venus de Milo.
3) Shouldn't a CR practitioner be underweight with respect to the normal weight for his/her height? In general yes. It sounds like Vlada is ready for the Calorie Restriction Calculator.
Posted by: Tony at December 15, 2008 12:37 PM
"wow april, you seem incredibly defensive."
"April took some of the comments critically and she was somewhat defensive."
What's your fucking point? That defending yourself against attacks on your own Web page deserves a wag of the finger? Someone comes up and kicks you in the shins, you what? Go buy them a sandwich? If we came to your house and shit in your foyer, what would *your* enlightened response be?
Since you don't understand the value of self-defense, that paragraph was rhetorical. Which means don't bother answering, because I at least don't care what you have to say.
It sounds like Vlada's ready for something, but I don't think Cron-O-Meter's quite it.
Posted by: Ashley at December 15, 2008 2:52 PM
"Don't believe what you hear, don't believe what you see. If you just close your eyes you can feel the enemy...And you can dream, so dream out loud. You know that your time is coming round. So don't let the bastards grind you down."
-U2
Posted by: Robin at December 16, 2008 3:48 AM
Oh, geez! Well, April, you made everything public, yourself. You invited it in. Unfortunately, some people are vicious, but that commenter was respectful and quite non-nasty and did not once threaten you, mock you or dismiss you. As noted by the commenter, you are the one who made your weight public. Those comments focused on your weight, as regards CR. You were not criticized in any way by that commenter, so why drag up all the other stuff?
Posted by: Twinkie at December 16, 2008 10:15 AM
"I think the debate is important. It is important to have the conversation."
That's a fair pov but not one any blog-owner is required to have. Talking about one's life choices is not the same as being open to constant debate about those choices. So your conclusion, "This blog allows that conversation to take place." seems quite absurd to me. It's not a conversation. It's a blog.
"Well, April, you made everything public, yourself. You invited it in." Again, absurd. Just because I walk in public doesn't mean my body, my clothes, everything are put out there for public discussion, dissection, consumption.
"This post seemed to rattle most readers." I'd say that this post seemed to inspire most readers to take a side, April or self-absorbed commenters.
Posted by: RG at December 16, 2008 4:52 PM
There's a disturbing trend in our society to assume that public figures somehow "belong" to everyone. It wasn't always so. At one time, people could discern a line between public and private, and they generally knew how to avoid crossing that line. This was also a time when being respectful meant keeping your random, uninformed opinions to yourself. Alas, those days are gone forever.
Today you can make completely obnoxious comments to total strangers and pretend you're being respectful just by adding disclaimers such as: "This is in the interest of honesty..." or "I'm not criticizing you..." or "Don't take this personally..."
Bullshit. You aren't interested in honesty--you're just trying to make another human being feel ashamed of her body and her choices so you can feel better about yourself. You can protest all you want that you aren't criticizing April, but it's quite clear that your goal is to cast her as a hypocrite. And how the hell could she *not* take these comments personally? Wouldn't you take it personally if someone implied you had some kind of eating disorder, then followed that up with the observation that you could stand to lose a few pounds? First of all, WTF? And secondly, who the hell asked you?
Oh, and by the way, Twinkie, just because April maintains a blog (like practically everyone else in the world) and has been kind enough to talk to the occasional reporter does *not* mean she's inviting every Tom, Dick and Harry to scrutinize and criticize her life. If you or other readers disagree with her choices or don't like what you read here, you should follow Ashley's admirable advice and "change the fucking channel." Or to put it another way, go get a life. Seriously. Your time on this earth is much too short to spend your precious time criticizing people you do not and probably never will know.
Posted by: Robin at December 16, 2008 7:03 PM
'So your conclusion, "This blog allows that conversation to take place." seems quite absurd to me. It's not a conversation. It's a blog.'
Once you turn on comments - its a conversation. You know, where one person says something, and someone responds, kind of like your reponse to my comment. So my conclusion that its a conversation, *gasp* is true.
I'm sorry that you feel its absurd. If you would like, I would be more than happy to have a conversation with you to discuss it further.
Posted by: Frank at December 17, 2008 8:12 AM
Okay, a blog with comments allows for comments. Conversation it is still not. In any case, there's a difference, however, between "a" conversation and "that" conversation. In your theory, any blog with comments could allow for "that" conversation. In fact, April doesn't ask for the particular debate you feel is important, nor do most blogs.
Posted by: RG at December 17, 2008 2:26 PM
I can't believe someone would say you're too obsessive and then suggest you weigh less. That makes *my* head spin and it's not directed at me! The ideal is apparently someone who eats whatever and is perfectly thin--practically mythological! Also not CR, the slow metabolism is good, right?
The majority who read your blog do understand what you are doing/working on, though.
Posted by: Barb at December 17, 2008 7:40 PM
When I finally found a moment to catch up on your recent blogs I was struck with how it similar it was to an anonymous email that was sent to my son's football coach - who like yourself - generously volunteers his time and does a top job of it. Keep writing, while I personally aspire to giving CR a go I will first have to overcome a serious chocolate addiction. But I live in hope my head can take control of my emotional eating one day. Thank you for being brave enough to put yourself out there. I appreciate it.
Posted by: Keely at December 20, 2008 3:27 AM